I had a credit card with bank in Australia.  Six months ago I stopped working and was unable to keep up my payments to the bank (one of the big four).  I told them right at the start when they began ringing me that I was not working and would not be working for at least twelve months so I would be unable to pay them what they were wanting me to.  I offered on the phone to pay them a small sum each month and they told me that the amount was too small to make any difference.

Now the debt has obviously been sold off to the debt collectors as I have just received a letter from a lawyer promising all sorts of dreadful things if I didn't pay up within seven days.  A couple of days ago I received a message on my phone from someone with a heavy accent (sounds Indian) that wanted me to call them back.

I'm pissed off with these folks and I've lost patience now and just want to bail out of the whole deal.

Has anyone in Australia got to this point and been through the mill with debt collectors and had a successful outcome in dealing with them.

Based on the information I've been reading so far I've been planning to offer them a small sum of money each month and then if they reject that offer then plan on contesting the debt on the grounds that they have rejected my offer to settle.

I've observed that others claim that we should ask for a signed invoice from the bank that issued the card.

Has anyone succeeded in any of these approaches before or any others for that matter?  If so what exactly did you do?

I don't have any assets to speak of.  By that I mean any houses, car or anything else of substantial value for that matter.

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I think you have rendered globalman speechless with that theory ;-)

Antaine ón Clan Ó' Connacháin said:

Are you equating the ending of a marriage to the ending of an alleged debt to a financial institution? Thats crazy logic. At least the wife loved you once for who you were. The Banks only love you for what you can give to them each week out of your pay check... cue Globalmans response :-)

Peace and Love
I think a case can be made for a comparison. I stop giving my spouse what she wants, trouble ensues. I stop giving the bank what they want, threats ensue. In this case after six months the bank divorces me but now they try to substitute a different "spouse" into the relationship (aka debt collector). My three letters to this new "spouse" are to the effect that "Sorry but you are not my spouse now please go away" type of letter.


Antaine ón Clan Ó' Connacháin said:

Are you equating the ending of a marriage to the ending of an alleged debt to a financial institution? Thats crazy logic.
Peace and Love
Hi Antaine im going to give these letters a go. A few questions first im dealing with two debt collection companys the firts one states Re: Bank of Scotland Limited but the letter is from a debt collector. The second one state Client: AIB Bank but again the lettr is from a debt collector .So the question is who should i be sending the letters to the bank or the debt collector im only presuming the bank sold the debt the the debt collectors. The other question is which letters should i be sending the one in pdf format or the on in msword. Feel free anyone tho give me some advice

Thanks in advance

Antaine ón Clan Ó' Connacháin said:
George Tasker said:
OK I'll give this one a shot. It looks ok. The only thing is that one has to pay money for access to the response letters but given it is only small amounts of money then I guess that it better than paying out money to the debt collectors.

This is a story in progress. I'll keep you all abreast of developments.

Hi George,

The letters are here for you to peruse
(You can thank Haidee Jane as she posted them up here for me)

Peace Out Brother
Hi Simon,

sent the letters to the debt collectors and address it to the person whos name is on it if there is one. Use the msword ones, the PDF ones are for dealint with the banks.
Thats what i thought pat i just wasnt sure.Cheers for that man ill post here when i have a development
Hi Simon,

Debt Collectors have no legal standing in Ireland so you can ignore them. Again, its fear they use to trap people. Check out the information on www.getoutofdebtfree.org

One development since I sent the third letter. About two weeks afterwards they sent a reply indicating that they were chasing up the paper work.

Looks like we have a soap opera on the go here. I have no idea when or even if there will be another episode to share.
The soap opera continues. I've just received a couple of days ago a letter from these folks offering me a 30% discount on the credit card debt to be responded to in one week from now. The three letters have been sent. They are in tacit agreement now.

I still feel that I should respond in some way. Should I send them a letter reminding them I'm still waiting for proof of the debt and an invoice for the letter?
got this brilliant form from another freeman site called... get this... land of the free.co.uk
brothers across the water.

Brief Questionnaire Prior to Discussion of a Matter
You have called here today in order to discuss a matter. I need to establish grounds for any discussion and to provide my self with the necessary security before disclosing any of my private details to you. Please complete and hand back this brief questionnaire. If you cannot provide all the information required, I will take the assumption that you are not who you say you are and will decline to speak with you on this occasion while reserving all my rights not to be bound by any contracts revealed or unrevealed.

1. What is your full name ___________________________________________________________________

2. Are you here representing yourself or a company ______________________________________________

3. What is the Name of the Company you represent ______________________________________________

4. What is your address and the address of the company you represent. (include phone numbers)





5. Registration Number of your Vehicle ________________________________________________________

6. What is your job title in the company ________________________________________________________

7. Name of Person, or other, you wish to speak with ______________________________________________

8. Brief outline of reason for visit _____________________________________________________________


9. Do you have proof that I gave you authority over me. Yes / No (delete as appropriate)

(If yes, be ready to provide documented proof of contract and proof of authority over me, given by me.)

You will need to provide proof of a valid signed contract between you and I, should you wish to discuss any matter pertaining to Licenses, Debts, Fees, Charges, or any matter concerning a 3rd party.

Your signature: _________________________________ Date: ___________________

Any further developments George?

George Tasker said:

The soap opera continues. I've just received a couple of days ago a letter from these folks offering me a 30% discount on the credit card debt to be responded to in one week from now. The three letters have been sent. They are in tacit agreement now.

I still feel that I should respond in some way. Should I send them a letter reminding them I'm still waiting for proof of the debt and an invoice for the letter?

The Five Letters

Category: Debt Collection Agencies

Schedule A 
to Notice of Demand and Notice of Default and Settlement Agreement:
(a) Except as provided in subsections (c) and (d), "negotiable instrument" means an
unconditional promise or order to pay a fixed amount of money, with or without interest or
other charges described in the promise or order, if it:
(1) is payable to bearer or to order at the time it is issued or first comes into possession of
a holder;
(2) is payable on demand or at a definite time; and
(3) does not state any other undertaking or instruction by the person promising or
ordering payment to do any act in addition to the payment of money, but the promise or
order may contain (i) an undertaking or power to give, maintain, or protect collateral to
secure payment, (ii) an authorization or power to the holder to confess judgment or
realize on or dispose of collateral, or (iii) a waiver of the benefit of any law intended for the
advantage or protection of an obligor.
The Financial Administration Act [of Canada] (R.S., 1985, c. F-11)) defines
money” as:
money” includes negotiable instruments;
negotiable instrument” includes any cheque, draft, travellers cheque, bill of exchange, postal
note, money order, postal remittance, promissory note and any other similar instrument;
The Bills of Exchange Act [of Canada] (R.S., 1985, c. B-4)) states: 
16. (1) A bill of exchange is an unconditional order in writing, addressed by one person to
another, signed by the person giving it, requiring the person to whom it is addressed to pay,
on demand or at a fixed or determinable future time, a sum certain in money to or to the
order of a specified person or to bearer.
176. (1) A promissory note is an unconditional promise in writing made by one person to
another person, signed by the maker, engaging to pay, on demand or at a fixed or
determinable future time, a sum certain in money to, or to the order of, a specified person or
to bearer.

A Promissory Note is a Bill of Exchange, a Bill of Exchange is a Negotiable Instrument, and a
Negotiable Instrument is Money.
The Supreme Court of Canada, in its ruling in Duplain v. Cameron et al., [1961] S.C.R. 693” –
Per Locke J dissenting, referring to the Bills of Exchange Act, states:
“… that all persons throughout Canada may freely contract by bills of
exchange, promissory notes and cheques…”
The Supreme Court of Canada, in its ruling in Bank of Canada v. Bank of Montreal, [1978] 1
S.C.R. 1148” - quoting the Bills of Exchange Act in a case involving the nature of financial
instruments in Canada, stated:
What is said to be an unconditional promise to pay a sum certain in
money is itself money.
A Promissory Note, and a Money Order, which both comprise an unconditional promise to pay,
have been declared to be “money by the Supreme Court of Canada.



Dealing with Bankers.

The following 5 letters have been successfully used by a great many people over the past few years to effectively deal with creditor difficulties. We make no representations to the effectiveness of this strategy and we strongly advise interested parties to seek independent professional or competent advise when
utilizing such strategies.

Letter Number 1:

For use with just about any type of financial obligation issued by a licensed financial institution mortgage, credit card, bank loan etc. (Does not work
if the loan is from a private” source.)

From: ____________________
Date: ____________________
To: ____________________
Re: ___(Credit Card, bank loan, mortgage,
Account Number:___________

To Whom it may concern:

I would like to make arrangements to settle the above referenced matter.
Please provide me with your statement of the amount owing as of ___(pick date 2 weeks out for example)___, together with your assurance that you will accept payment in direct and immediate exchange for the original instrument of indebtedness in its original form.

Thank you very much.

by: authorized party

Letter Number 2A:

For use with adjustments in most cases when
you receive the initial response from Letter 1 above,
where they confirm an amount owing and provide
some comment that the statements” or some other
lame documentation they provide are evidence of the

From: ____________________
Date: ____________________
To: ____________________
Re: ___(Credit Card, bank loan, mortgage,
Account Number:___________

To Whom it may concern:

Thank you for your letter of __date______, wherein you confirm my outstanding balance as requested.
Also, you have confirmed that the
statements that _____(name of institution here)____
sends are your evidence of your indebtedness to the
Bank. (This is a quote from actual bank letter and
wording may vary slightly, but should where possible
be quoted from their letter.)

Accordingly, would you please confirm that the Agreement that exists between us which ratifies this specific application of these statements” and confirms me as the party obligated to the Bank will be delivered to me as the original instrument of
indebtedness in its original form, in exchange for payment in full of my obligation as may be referenced by these statements.


by: authorized party

Letter Number 2B:

For use with adjustments in other cases when
you receive the initial response from Letter 1 above,
where they confirm an amount owing and simply
ignore the second part of the request.

From: ____________________
Date: ____________________
To: ____________________
Re: ___(Credit Card, bank loan, mortgage,
Account Number:__________

To Whom it may concern:

Thank you for your letter of ________, wherein you confirm my outstanding balance as
It is apparent that you have overlooked or ignored my request to confirm that you would accept full payment of the alleged obligation from me in consideration of your delivery to me of the original instrument of indebtedness in its original form.
Accordingly, unless I receive your written confirmation that you will accept payment from me in consideration of your delivery to me of the original
instrument of indebtedness in its original form on or before ____(pick a date like 15 days from sending the letter)____, I will conclude that you are either unable or unwilling to comply, and I will thereafter consider the matter between us to have been legally and
financially settled.


by: authorized party

Letter Number 3:

For use with adjustments in other cases when
you receive NO response from Letter #1 above.

From: ____________________
Date: ____________________
To: ____________________
Re: ___(Credit Card, bank loan, mortgage,
Account Number:__________

To Whom it may concern:

I have sent you my request as of ___(date)___ for you to confirm the balance owing
on the above referenced matter and for you to confirm that you would accept full payment of the alleged obligation from me in consideration of your delivery to me of the original instrument of indebtedness in its original form.
It is apparent that you have overlooked or ignored my request. Accordingly, unless I receive your written confirmation that you will accept payment from me in consideration of your delivery to me of the original instrument of indebtedness in its original form on or before ____(pick a date like 15 days from sending the letter)____, I will conclude that you are either unable or unwilling to comply, and I will thereafter consider the matter between us to have been legally and financially settled.


by: authorized party

1. The concepts outlined in these documents
will also work for most Court Orders to pay. Simply
change the wording such that you are requesting
confirmation that the court will accept payment in
consideration of their delivery to you of the Original
Order, as duly executed by ___(Judge name)___ and
in its original form (which is the original instrument
of indebtedness).
2. This process will not work with private
lenders because in most cases they can and will
produce the original instrument of indebtedness.
3. If you receive any communication from a
collection agency or lawyer representing the financial
institution, you should follow the concepts outlined
in the above letters but ONLY in direct
correspondence with the financial institution.
NEVER respond to a lawyer or collection agency
with anything other than the concept outlined in
Letter 4 that follows.

Letter Number 4:

For use with when terminating
communication from financial institutions lawyer or
collection agent.

From: ____________________
Date: ____________________
To: ____________________
Re: ___(Credit Card, bank loan, mortgage,
Account Number:___________

To Whom it may concern:

I confirm that I have received a written communication from you dated ___(date)___
wherein you make reference to the above captioned matter.
It is apparent that you are acting on the presumption that some relationship that you may
have with ___(name of bank)___ , is in some way related to me. I am not a party to this implied relationship you have with ___(name of bank)___, either directly, indirectly or by means of any tacit consent.
Accordingly, I do not understand how to respond to you inasmuch as I am unaware of any contractual relationship between us.
As a courtesy and because you may find it helpful, I have attached recent correspondence
between myself and ___(name of bank)___, wherein I have repeatedly offered to settle the mater between myself and ___(name of bank)___.

by: authorized party

c.c file

Letter Number 5:

Alternate for use with when terminating
communication from financial institutions lawyer or
collection agent.

From: ____________________
Date: ____________________
To: ____________________
Re: ___(Credit Card, bank loan, mortgage,
Account Number: __________

To Whom it may concern:

I confirm that I have received a written communication from you addressed to
_____________ and dated ____________ wherein you make reference to the above captioned matter.

It is apparent that either:
i) you are acting on the presumption that some relationship that you may have with
__(name of bank)__, is in some way related to me, which if such presumption is the case, I confirm that I am not a party to this implied relationship you have with __(name of bank)__, either directly, indirectly or by means of any tacit consent, and accordingly, I do
not understand how to respond to you inasmuch as I am unaware of any contractual relationship between us; or
ii) you have entered into a contractual relationship inclusive of evidence of consideration
paid to or agreed to be paid to __(name of bank)__, which contractual relationship has caused you to become the legal holder in due course of an alleged
obligation between ____________ and __(name of
If indeed you have entered into such a contractual relationship with __(name of bank)__, as set forth in clause ii) above, then I hereby confirm that I accept your offer to reduce the amount of the alleged obligation from $______ to $______; and I confirm that I would like to make arrangements for settlement of the above referenced matter immediately upon you providing me with your written and legally binding assurance that you will
accept payment in full settlement of this alleged obligation in direct and immediate exchange for the original instrument of indebtedness in its original
form that you must now be holding pursuant to the aforesaid contractual arrangement between you and __(name of bank)__.


by: authorized party

NOTE: underlined portion in last paragraph
may be omitted if not applicable.

What is right and wrong DOES matter in life:
All the money in existence in our monetary systems has been borrowed at interest from a bank. When all currency in the system is borrowed at interest, there is NO MATHEMATICAL WAY to pay one penny of interest without pushing some people off the table via cancellation of their obligations to pay principal through bankruptcy, or through the kind of cancellation programs offered.
Reform must come from the side of dissatisfied customers, because the lenders have NO
motivation to move away from their current position of power and influence. If people who favour the customer over the lender are able to use the law to stimulate change, any imbalance created by giving people their real estate for free will best correct itself
through a change in banking laws and practice, NOT through perpetuation of the present system of GRAND THEFT of the entire wealth of society by the banking cartels.
Under the present system, someone HAS to get something for NOTHING. There is no other way.
Either the bankers continue to get interest payments for NOTHING at risk, or customers get free real estate after "borrowing" money that was created out of NOTHING and having the "loan" either canceled for fraud, or discharged in bankruptcy, or the lender
gets the real estate from the customer for NOTHING, following a foreclosure on the loan that was created out of NOTHING.
The answer is to stop basing bank lending on NOTHING.
The federal courts in Canada have stated that either the common man wake up and use the common law, the rights and freedoms available to him....or lose it for ever.
That is your choice.

I'm in the process  of send (one of the big four) bank a Adequate Assurance of Due Performance and Affidavit for the debt of the mortgage as the same has happened to me (no job). Sent them 2 Promissory Notes for Cost , sent me back conflicting letter , DID NOT send back original Promissory Notes signed in Blue ink they Keep THEM ,did not tell me they dishonoured the PM"s. So sending this above to see if they have the PROOF beyond Doubt that THEY lent me THIER MONEY , which they didn't I lent MY MONEY through my SIGNATURE !!!!!!

Check the web on HOW to BEAT DEBT COLLECTORS the info is out there!!!!!

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